Homosexuality, same sex marriage and the bible

I've been pondering long and hard how to write this all out, and I know it will offend many.  Not all will agree with me and some may even de-”friend” me on facebook.

But I have to speak out.  This is a crazy and mixed up world we live in.  In a politically heated climate, we have many people supporting homosexuality and same-sex marriage.

I intend on making other posts about this, this one being on religion.  Others may be on the legal aspects, medical aspects, and even on secular arguments against same sex marriage.

Yes, I've said it.  I'm against same-sex marriage.  This is enough to cause anybody to be infuriated and I can see people sharpening their claws, getting on their computers based on that idea alone.

Can we be civil though?  This is for the people on both sides of the debate.  I've seen anger and hatred spew, and there is no room for that.  It's not constructive.  Instead, I ask that we consider each other; respect each other, with open minds and open hearts.

I'm going to do the best I can to present this in a reasonable and logical way throughout all my posts.  I don't claim to be perfect.  Where people can point out serious logical flaws in what I bring forth, I promise to do my best to correct my posts. If you are simply being nit picky, don't bother.

For those who want to come after me with how I'm judging others and how I'm not supposed to as a Christian, I simply reply with this:

The lack of biblical literacy scares me.  If you want to come after me with the bible, please know what you are talking about.  Keep things in context.  The English language often doesn't do the original Hebrew and Greek of the bible justice.  That said, there is a big difference between judgment (recognizing something for what it is) and condemnation (to pass sentence and mete out punishment, like a judge over a criminal proceeding)  There are quite a number of bible verses I could go into, but that could take up a whole topic of a blog like this, and it's beyond the scope of where I'm going so let's move on.

Ultimately the bible calls Christians to “speak the truth in love” (Ephesians 4:15)  Yet many fail to understand what this “love” really means.  Agape is the Greek word found to describe the highest form of God's love towards man, and the highest form of love we can have for one another.  It means to hold others best interests higher and above our own, this is why it's considered a self-less love.  When we say God is love, this is the kind of love that allowed Jesus to die on cross for our sins.  This is what it means to do unto others as that part of the “golden rule.”

In a more practical way, this means that if I'm doing something harmful to others, or even to myself (and I've had my times), the most loving thing is for somebody to intervene and stop me.  This is why Christians should be speaking against sin.  It's the loving thing to do.  Proverbs 27:5 says that “Open rebuke is better than hidden love.”  Ultimately it means to speak out and confront somebody is better than holding love in your heart for that person and doing nothing.  Ephesians 5:11 states, “And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.”  As Christians, we are called to rebuke sin, to speak against evil, but so many sit in the church pews, they hear the words, and they go home for the week and never act on what they hear.  We need to take a stand for love and truth, instead of worrying whether or not we will offend somebody.  News flash:  The bible is already divisive and offensive.  Jesus has words that divide people and He knew it. (Matthew 10:34-39)

I love Jesus.  He's my Lord and Savior.  I can think of how my life would be without Him based on how I've lived when I've strayed.  I'm a sinner redeemed by His blood. I'm not perfect.  I've pursued sexual sin more than I'd like to admit, but I'm not here to air my dirty laundry.  The point is that we all need Him, and we all need to repent of sin.

All that said, it's time to get into the bible about what it says about homosexuality, marriage and the like.

First of all, it's important to note that while the word “homosexual” didn't exist when the bible was written and that “sexual orientation” is a phrase fairly recent to our culture, it's absurd to attack the bible based on that.  It's enough that the concept was around then.  They had different words in the Greek/Hebrew to describe those who engaged in those actions.

That said, let's take a brief look at some of the bible verses that have been looked at by many others and consider them.

Genesis talks about the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah – in recent times, there have been those trying to say that the city was destroyed because of its “inhospitality”.  While attempting to force homosexual rape on the angels certainly is inhospitable, we need to remember that God had already said he was going to destroy the cities because of their grave sin.  The Jews saw the context as can be seen in the oft-overlooked book of Jude which spoke of them as being under judgment because of sexual immorality and having gone after strange flesh.

Many people supporting homosexuality as being compatible with Christianity try to redefine what strange flesh is, but their criticisms are answered based on language and context, see Dave Miller Ph.D. on Homosexuality and “Strange Flesh”

Regarding Leviticus 18:22 and homosexuality, there is plenty of evidence that this is a universal moral standard, not just for the Jews, and while I belive the context is clear, I want to post a link here:  http://www.tektonics.org/lp/lev18.html

And from Dr Michael Brown who was born a Jew and his degrees in Hebrew and Near Eastern languages gives him a solid understanding – and taking into context about Levitical laws and how it applies to homosexuality is excellent.

 

For more detailed view, here was a blog response to a video that also levied criticisms against the bible and Christianity with regard to homosexuality.

Other criticisms answered on Dr. Rob Gagnon’s site.

One may call me lazy for linking, but I don’t see a need to reinvent the wheel here.  I must add in one other thing.  If somebody tries to justify themselves by what is perceived as being sin – levies a criticism – and that criticism is answered – then they need to abandon their view and repent.  Anything else is putting self over God in my opinion and isn’t being honest.

This all aside, even without those verses, it really wouldn’t matter when it comes to marriage.  Even without those verses, we can still look at what Jesus had to say about marriage. 

Jesus didn’t miss teaching opportunities.  When approached about him healing on the Sabbath – He gave examples about how it's lawful to do good on the Sabbath (Matthew 12)  He also showed the purpose of the Sabbath, that it was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. (Mark 2)

He could have given different answers when asked about marraige, but I think the best comes from here:

 

Matthew 19: 4-6

4 And He answered and said to them, "Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

Now Jesus could have said something along the lines of (especially given Greek culture), "It's about two people who love each other" - or "all consensual relationships are blessed" or even, "Love is love."

 

It's not what we wish things were or want things to be.  It’s direct, it’s clear.  Jesus could have changed things radically about marriage, but he made it specific about what it is – one man, one woman.  It’s arrogant to put our own views in place over Christ’s.  For an expanded view on this, please see Dr. Daniel Akin’s column here:  Is it true Jesus never addressed same-sex marriage?

That said then, how are Christians to view gay marriage?  Is it loving, is it the “right” thing to do?  The bible makes it clear that being friends with the world means making God an enemy. (James 4:4)  In that sense, supporting and approving of sin in order to make Christianity more palatable is fighting against God.  To go and give into the world’s views and philosophies about homosexuality and choice is under the same condemnation.  While there are some reasonably stated arguments to pass it, as a Christian, I’m to seek what is right according to God’s eyes, not the world’s.  We are to reprove sin, not legalize it.

So to the Christians first – We need to speak the truth in love, we need to be compassionate – not by agreeing with what people do, but by loving people – meeting them where they are.  Not in disgust, and never be surprised when the world acts like the world.  When people say they have no choice – in one way, they are right.  If you are a Christian and are reading this, I want you to consider something.  Think back onto the times before you were a Christian – when you were one with the world, how sin came quite naturally.  Remember what you needed to be saved from, the vices you had – and the ongoing sanctification and it should come as no surprise when a person says they can’t be changed, that they can’t help themselves.

To a non-Christian reading this, especially if you are dealing/struggling with homosexuality, when you say choice and when we say choice, we mean two very different things.  Granted, I can understand as well as anybody as I’ve been involved in sexual sin myself.  The sex drive is undeniably powerful, and it feels good.  But feeling good doesn't equal being right.  You need saved, through the redeeming blood of Christ.  He can change you and your eternal destiny.  There is a better way, and ultimately holiness is better than the life you have now. 

For those struggling with homosexualty and same sex attraction – one who understands you, where you are coming from better than anybody I know – may I point you to Matt Moore’s site here?  http://moorematt.com/

The need for understanding what LORD really means.

In many ways, I think culture has invaded the church (as a whole) and due to this, a watered down version of the gospel has come our way. I'm thankful that there are some that teach the Word of God, in context, but seem to be so many that offer programs that seem to lose focus on Jesus, and who He is.

What I think most, is that there is more stress on making people feel good - rather than pursing holiness. Yes, there is joy in Christ - let there be no doubt about that. But I have experienced seeing people who praise Jesus with their lips, but at the same time, choose to remain in sin, remain in sinful lifestyes, sinful relationships. So with that in mind, I want to consider what LORD really means.

First, I want to look at the Greek term, show what the bible teaches, and then, most importantly, see how it needs to apply when we call ourselves Christians.

Lord - kyrios; kyrie

But what does it mean?

Looking at Thayer's, and the usage of the term, it means the following:

having power or authority

He to whom a person or thing belongs, about which he has the power of deciding; master, lord

So, let's really consider what that means...

Several times in scripture, Jesus talks about the servant and master relationship, meaning this... if we are Christians, we belong to Him. This means if He commands something of us, we are bound to Him to do that, to be obedient to Him.

So how does the bible address this?

One of the most impacting passages of Scripture says a great deal about what I find happening in the church today.

Jesus addresses this in plainly in the bible looking at Matthew 7:21-23

Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

Pretty heavy stuff... "I never knew you." Because they praised Him with their lips, but the never gave over authority of their lives to Jesus. They felt that they could do these works in His name, and it would be enough. But where was the relationship? Without following the commandments, without following Jesus as Lord, they have no place with Him.

There is a priority to following Jesus, to having Him be our master. In Matthew 8:21-22 shows an example of this:
Then another of His disciples said to Him, "Lord, let me first go and bury my father." But Jesus said to him, "Follow Me, and let the dead bury their own dead."

Now to explain this passage, it doesn't mean the guy's dad had just died - Levitical law would have forbidden the guy to even be out in public - but his father might have been older, and the family business would need to be taken over when his dad died - so he's basically saying he has to do all these other things and then, when that's done, then he could come and follow Jesus.

Another example is the story told of the rich young ruler. Look at Matthew19:16-22:
Now behold, one came and said to Him, "Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?" So He said ot Him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments." He said to Him, "Which ones?" Jesus said, "'You shall not murder,' 'You shall not commit adultery,' 'You shall not steal,' 'You shall not bear false witness,' 'Honor your father and your mother,' and, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'" The young man said to Him, "All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?" Jesus said to him, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.

Our priorites have to be in check, to put it another way, Jesus says in Luke 14:26-33, "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and count the cost, whether he has enough to finish it, lest after he has laid the foundationa ns is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, saying, 'This man began to build and was not able to finish.' Or what king, going to make war with another king does not sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand? Or else, while the other is still a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks conditions of peace. So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple."

So what is Jesus saying here? Count the cost, be willing to forsake all, and follow Him. That's what it means to for us to call Him Lord. He says in Matthew 16:24, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me."

Are we willing to give up our comforts, are we willing to give up what makes us happy, and seek Holiness instead?

One more example of knowing Him is key, something Jesus says that we cannot ignore. In John 14:15 He says, "If you love me, keep My commandments."

John reaffirms this in his first letter, and the whole really talks about truth, knowing Jesus, dealing with sin, and most importantly love.

1st John 2:3-6:
Now by this, we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

So Jesus is our Lord - not only because He has authority over us - but as our master, He is the model we are to follow after.

And what is one of the first commandments Jesus gives out? When He starts His ministry in Galilee, it says in Matthew 4:17:
From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

I hear of churches saying lots of things, but I rarely hear anything about repentance anymore - yet it is this very thing Jesus calls us to do. It seems like the churches will play up a feel good message, but not teach the Word of God. They will talk about Jesus, may even talk about being "born again" but they will never talk about needing to repent to do it.

Yet if we consider Romans 10:9
that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Here He is... called Lord. But when it comes to Lord, you must mean it. See, even the demons believe, and they tremble (James 2:19) But they would never call Jesus Lord, because they do not desire for Him to have authority over them.

We have to be doers of the word, to be in action. As James put it in in James 1:22, Be doers of the word, and not hearers only, decieving yourselves.

So to you Christians out there, we need to live in repentance, seeking holiness first, seeking to serve Jesus, our Lord - being obedient to Him and His commandments - praying for one another, serving one another, and loving one another - desiring to live for His Word.

Jesus doesn't want fans, and He doesn't want admirers. He wants followers, and He wants disciples.

As Jesus puts it in Matthew 12:30, "He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad."

If you are caught up in sinful lifestyles, sexual immorality, adultery, or caught up in other sins - can you genuinely say you are for Jesus when you praise Him with your lips, but don't do the will of the Father by choosing to stay in your habitual sin? To put it another way, we can look to serve Jesus, or we can serve our own desires, but we can't have it both ways. We should seek to turn away from sin and be for Jesus, but trying to live out a dual nature will never please Him.

I have a feeling that there are many people claiming to be Christians today who will be among those saying "Lord, Lord" upon judgement day - so perhaps, those who were unwilling to give up their sin found it too costly to give up - and perhaps those people were never truly Christians to begin with. If you are complacent with your sin and ignoring the call for repentance - or worse yet, showing an outward display of celebrating sin in your life and prasing Jesus with your lips at the same time, you should reevaluate your relationship with Christ.

If you've been offended by this statement, what are you holding onto that prevents you from serving Jesus as your Lord?

Does it mean you are in a place you don't belong? Because I will say this. If you are holding onto your habitual sin... stop. You can't have it both ways, pick Jesus, or pick your sin. I urge for people to repent. Reject what you know you are doing wrong, and genuinely follow after the commandments of the Lord. By doing so, then you will know the truth is in you.

Customer/Tech support rules

While on this, I won't say where I work, but I will say I work for a wireless provider.

That said, I have a few rules that will make your time spent with me much easier.

1. When I ask for your name, it means I want YOUR name, not your mother's, brother's, friend's, cousin's, boyfriend's, boss's, teacher's, dog's, pastor's, therapist's name. YOUR name. If you are Bob, don't tell me your name is Sarah. And yes, I do need your last name, because I don't know if you are Tom Smith, Tom Baker, or Tom Johnson.

2. Don't give more information than I ask you for. I don't need your life story. While I'm happy to be understanding about whatever distress you might be having, I have a reason for the questions I'm asking you.

3. When we ask you what your number is, don't ask "you mean the one I'm calling from?" Think. If you are on your next door neighbor's cell phone, or another family members phone, how is knowing his or her number going to help us fix YOUR phone that is having problems?

4. Don't give vague answers like "it's not working" or "it's broke." That tells me nothing.

5. Don't lie about the steps you've taken, especially if you are calling back in. Calls are documented for a reason.

6. Don't call back in for a different answer than the last one given you. The answer is the same 99% of the time.

7. If we give you steps to fix your problem, don't think we got it wrong. Don't say, "I don't think that's it." You are not the expert. Can show me your I.T. certifications and/or degrees in MY field? No? Okay then, let me do my job.

8. When I ask you a question that requires a Yes or No answer... that's what I want. Yes or No. If I want you to elaborate, I'll ask.

9. Since we are troubleshooting your wireless device, if you have a 2nd phone, call from it first. If you absolutely need us to call you back on your alternate line, we will, but don't ask if we need the number. This isn't the psychic friends network.

10. If you are calling from the device having the problem, don't assume we can fix it - that's like asking your mechanic to fix your brakes and transmission while you are driving the car.

11. Two or Three steps that you have to do on your own is NOT complicated. It may be annoying, but that doesn't define complexity.

12. If we don't make it, don't assume we support/ or are able to fix it. If we have to send you elsewhere, don't argue the point.

13. Don't ask the obvious. If it says click "next" to continue, don't ask me if you need to click next. It should be clear that if you don't hit "next" you won't be getting anywhere. And yes, you don't have to ask me at each and every step... take the step that actually makes sense.

14. Don't talk down to me just because you can't see my face. I am a human being too, and I deserve to be treated like one. I can assure you however, if you call in often enough, you will be put on "the list." This list actaully resides with our legal department, and yes, there are steps that will be taken where if you wish to remain our customer, you can write to us for support.

15. Don't get into conversations with other people in the background. I'm giving you my time, give me yours.

16. Don't ask "are you there?" if you get 3 seconds of silence. I'm here, and it's annoying to be asked that every other moment.

17. Don't curse on the phone. I'm expected to remain civil and professional, so you can afford to meet me halfway on that.

18. Don't use "The customer is always right" with me. You can tell me that trees run with blood in them, the moon is made of gouda and JFK was killed by aliens - but that doesn't require me to agree with you. Yes, you do have the right to be heard, but you do not have the right to be disrespectful.

19. Don't call when you only have 2 minutes to spare. I'm sorry, but don't think we can simply fix your issue if you are calling just to "check." We don't have magic wands.

20. Take the steps to fix the issue. Yes, the steps may mean you will lose information. No, we aren't doing that to you on purpose. Yes, if we could save your information, we would. I'm sorry, that's life.

Bible - what does it mean to you?

Bring up the word "Bible" and any number of words or thoughts come to mind. Without the proper context though, it's just words and paper. Once you add context to it, everything changes.

For the Atheist - it's a myth, full of errors and contradictions (I hope to cover this at another time.)

For the student - it's a book that's shaped the world's culture, full of history, literature, and poetry - a glimpse in how laws were formed in a world long gone.

For the religious - and for the skeptics - it's a book with good ideas and moral values. It's one of many ways to get to heaven. For the religious, it's a chance to pick and choose your Jesus by only thinking of the things they like and discarding the rest.

But for the Christian, this should mean so much more.

If we say we are Christians, the importance of the bible cannot be undervalued. For the Christian, the bible is the truth. It's God's Word. It's His instruction manual. It's the standard on how we live and where we set our hope. I'm not talking about the law and being perfect in it... I'm talking about understanding and drawing close to God.

See, without the bible, we presume to know God - and create a pseudo-spirituality. There is plenty of spirituality to be found inside the bible to begin with though, we just need to understand how to value and live it out. If we call ourselves Christians, we should delight in His Word. We should love it, because God loved us enough to teach us, to show us - to give us what we need.

If we ignore the parts of the bible that make us feel uncomfortable though - that's just excusing ourselves when we are hypocriates and don't want to look in the mirror at what we've become. We can never come to terms with God, so long as that is in the way. We can call ourselves religious, claiming Lord, Lord - but are we those who practice lawlessness, and using God's grace as an excuse to continue in our sin? In some ways, isn't that just like taking away from (or adding to) God's Word? There are numerous places in the bible that address this - so much so that if we consider the way the text is done, looking over the context of scripture, it's a bad idea in general. It's almost like preaching a different gospel if we only take the parts we like without counting the cost of the things we don't like.

That's not how it should be. If we say we are Christians, shouldn't we be different than the rest of the world? Far too often (myself included) we see just how close we can get to sin without getting burned. What kind of testimony do we give then? Why should anybody want to be a Christian when we live the same kind of life the rest of the world does? How can we show there is hope when we don't show the kind of change the gospel promises it can bring? Why should others want to be Christians when our lives don't reflect Jesus as our Lord?

I intend on getting more specific on the things of the Lord, and what they mean in the bible, so stay tuned.

My purpose here

Well, you've come to my place on the web and may well wonder what you are doing here. So a little about me...

I've had my own challenges in life, my own trials - and while change is often very good, there are some changes I could do without. Nonetheless, I move through them. I can have a sharp tongue from time to time, and I can say some bold things, and in other ways, I have a quirky sense of humor. In some instances, you are entitled to your opinion... in other instances, you are entitled to be wrong. ;)

So join me on my journey - I'm a layperson when it comes to the bible, with a love for God the Father, for Jesus the Son, and for the Holy Spirit. I do love studying the bible, and in the coming posts, you'll be able to tell this. Hopefully I can encourage, inform, and entertain. You'll see some of my own struggles as well as I have my own goals to achieve.